Best way to upgrade

[Joel Santos Rico]

Hi,

The default behaviour of Eagle is to keep old versions of eagle when you update. Is not really a problem, as it is not hughe program, but it's a tad annoying when I click an old link pointing to an old version or I double click on a file and it opens in the old version because the file association has not updated. Why is this the default behaviour? I also noted that in my projects there is a file called Eagle.epf, which lists the libraries in use in my project, and the default libraries still point to old versions of them, as in for example:

...
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/19inch.lbr"
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/40xx.lbr"
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/41xx.lbr"
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/45xx.lbr"
...

Do I have to check all my projects every time I upgrade and update to the new paths? Is that the way this is intended to be? I was wondering if there is a less cumbersome way to update.

Thanks for taking the time to check my problem.

regards,

Joel

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[BB-Sphere (Clem)]

Eagle? Is it still in use?:p

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[rachaelp]

Post by BB-Sphere (Clem)
Eagle? Is it still in use?

Yes and it's going from strength to strength, have you looked at the features added in the more recent versions?

But why are you dredging up posts from years ago? Trying to level up are we? ;) :p

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[BB-Sphere (Clem)]

I was not being snarky, but really wondered..
Clem

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[Gerald Schwarz]

The recent version is 9.5.0. This version has a lot of new functions as well.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/blog/whats-new-in-autodesk-eagle-9-5/

You can download it here:
https://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/free-download

Gerald
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[BB-Sphere (Clem)]

Thanks Gerald. You answered my question.

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[Joern Paschedag]

Post by BB-Sphere (Clem)
Eagle? Is it still in use?:p
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I've seen what you have posted before...
If you have nothing else to say you better shut up.

[Douglas Wong]

Real numbers are hard to come by. The last numbers I saw indicate Eagle has a small market share by revenue numbers, but it has orders of magnitude more users than big names like Mentor, Cadence and Altium. (because of its decent free package) Presumably AutoCad is trying to convert all those users into paying customers with novel licensing schemes. Unfortunately they risk losing some of the user base in the process.

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[Gerald Schwarz]

Yes, it seems so.
The licensing scheme is a blocking wall for many old-Eagle user.
AD was or is extremely expensive with its software tools every time.

With the free version of Eagle you can do everything with its functions which you can do with the premium version, but you have no adequate routing space on the PCB (80x100mm, with 2 signal layer).
So, if you like mounting a "large" device, e.g. a 100 pin SMD IC with its components, the placing space will be overflow very quickly.
Then you need a full version. Well, then the price shoots up like a rocket.

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[rachaelp]

Post by Gerald Schwarz
AD was or is extremely expensive with its software tools every time.
...
Then you need a full version. Well, then the price shoots up like a rocket.

I don't think EAGLE is particularly expensive, If you do commercial work and want the standard version it's £114/year, if you need the premium version it's £600/year. For hobby work then it's possibly a bit steep for the premium version, but it was never free for the equivalents fo these pre-subscription either. Compare the premium version to the likes of Mentor and Altium and you can get many seats for the cost of just one of the market leaders. Yes it doesn't do quite everything they do, but it's getting a lot closer. I understand why some people don't like the subscription but nobody can accuse Autodesk of creaming the profits from EAGLE and not putting the effort in to update the software, compare 9.5 to 7.6 (pre Autodesk) and it's night and day in terms of capability.

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[Gerald Schwarz]

Hi Rachael,
Yes, that's right and true.
Many smaller companies may not use such CAD programs every day. So a subscription scheme, especially if you need several tools "at the same time", can quickly become expensive.Smaller companies may also have other offerings or services, so working alone with CAD programs can be costly rather than money-making.
For me e.g., I also offer building of prototype modules, or programming of Microcontroller controlled modules. Then every day of the year is valuable considering Eagle-CAD.

Yes, we remember what discussions we had here at E14 in the Autodesk Community back then.

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[shabaz]

I really like EAGLE, and tried hard to see if I could work with the pricing model, since I wanted the engineers to get paid well.

But, from a perception perspective alone, the model is quite bad for hobbyists : ( I really wanted a decent pricing model for 4-layer hobbyists (such as those who have grown up with EAGLE perhaps).

Having to subscribe and unsubscribe for 4-layer is going to always be seen as cost-inefficient (and inconvenient having to remember switching subscriptions off) because hobbyists are unlikely to make full use of it for an entire month. So that could leave hobbyists feeling they are not getting value for money.

They are basically falling in a gap where they get considered and fully charged as commercial users, which they're not : (

I've no issue paying for other software including modern rental software, and including older licensing models like upgrades,
but prefer those where there is less inconvenience, and fairer for hobbyists.

Some RF software manufacturer charges $30 per year, so I pay that, it seems fair for hobbyists.
$15 per month for EAGLE seems unfair considering that's not a hobbyist amount, that's for commercial. I fully understand they need to draw the line somwhere, and unfortunately for some of us, the line is in the wrong place, and it is what it is : ( For this reason, although I still keep up-to-date with what EAGLE features there are, I feel I cannot upgrade for hobbyist use any more : (

Matlab makes on average £30-40 a year from me, since I don't upgrade every year, I'll skip some years. That's £30-40 more than they otherwise would make, since I'd move off to (say) Gnu Octave if the cost was much higher.

Same with other Adobe stuff like Lightroom, I preferred upgrading every few years when it was convenient for me, and not paying for every release, but I cannot do that now. So I've moved off that, to Capture One, even though it costs more initially, I'll average less per year until I eventually upgrade to the latest version.

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[Douglas Wong]

Around 2003 I spent a few months designing with the free version of Eagle before taking the plunge and buying the full version. I had to upgrade when they changed the library structure. I still design a lot of circuits and boards with Eagle using my old version, but have not used any of the versions introduced after they moved to a subscription based license.
Out of all the new users that start with a free CAD tool, only a fixed small percentage will ever switch to a paid version. Autodesk may increase this percentage somewhat by keeping the initial cost low, but it is important that a decent free version is available, otherwise new users will choose a different tool and follow a different upgrade path. The company with the best free tool is going to have a larger base from which to gain paying converts.
Unfortunately, the subscription method doesn't appeal to me and I will likely never use it, even though newer versions of Eagle have some nice new features.

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[Joern Paschedag]

Post by Joel Santos Rico
Hi,
...
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/19inch.lbr"
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/40xx.lbr"
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/41xx.lbr"
UsedLibrary="C:/EAGLE-7.6.0/lbr/45xx.lbr"
...
Do I have to check all my projects every time I upgrade and update to the new paths? Is that the way this is intended to be? I was wondering if there is a less cumbersome way to update.
Thanks for taking the time to check my problem.
regards,
Joel

Unfortunately you didn't mention your version of eagle nor your OS.
Talking of win. There is an U-parameter that one can use to point to the
eagle.exe file, i.e.
E:EAGLE-5.12.0\bin\eagle.exe -U E:\Eagle-5.12.0\eaglerc-512.usr
F:\EAGLE-6.6.0\bin\eagle.exe -U F:\Eagle-6.6.0\eaglerc-660.usr

The file can have any name. I put them into the correspondent eagle
version and name it i.e. "eaglerc-660.usr" instead of the original
"eaglerc.usr" which is the name normally in EVERY eagle version (and
causes problems).
First part is the pointer to "eagle.exe" which is located in sub
directory "bin", second part is the location of xxx.usr, in my case in
the eagle main directory.

I don't use the AD versions but think that this parameter still exist.
Check documentation.

[Rob Pearce]

Post by Joern Paschedag
I don't use the AD versions but think that this parameter still exist.
Check documentation.

Yes, it still exists, and is very useful for having V9, V8, V7 and V5
all available on the same PC, in case I need to work on an old design
and don't want to convert it.

[Joern Paschedag]

Post by Rob Pearce

Post by Joern Paschedag
I don't use the AD versions but think that this parameter still exist.
Check documentation.

Yes, it still exists, and is very useful for having V9, V8, V7 and V5
all available on the same PC, in case I need to work on an old design
and don't want to convert it.

That is exactly the reason why I keep old versions ;-)

[rachaelp]

Post by Joern Paschedag
I don't use the AD versions

It's a shame more of the long time users of the original EAGLE like yourself aren't using the newer AD versions, your experience and support on the main AD forums would be very valuable and I'm sure if you could look past the licensing (which I assume is your reason for not using it), it's actually really really good now. It's like EAGLE on steroids, the last few releases in particular have been big jumps up in functionality.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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[Joern Paschedag]

Post by rachaelp

Post by Joern Paschedag
I don't use the AD versions

It's a shame more of the long time users of the original EAGLE like yourself aren't using the newer AD versions, your experience and support on the main AD forums would be very valuable and I'm sure if you could look past the licensing (which I assume is your reason for not using it), it's actually really really good now. It's like EAGLE on steroids, the last few releases in particular have been big jumps up in functionality.
Best Regards,
Rachael
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A shame is AD's attitude...

[Chuck Huber]

Post by Joern Paschedag

Post by rachaelp

Post by Joern Paschedag
I don't use the AD versions

It's a shame more of the long time users of the original EAGLE like
yourself aren't using the newer AD versions

...

Post by Joern Paschedag
A shame is AD's attitude...

Good afternoon, Rachael,

Like Joern, myself, and others, you're a long time user of Eagle.  I
recall that you were vocal regarding AD's licensing policy.  I was as
well.  I believe that we engaged each other in a... not heated... but an
"energetic" debate, which I found quite enjoyable.  We both were able to
clearly convey our respective policies.  While I understand your view on
this, I have not adopted it as my own.

I wouldn't call it a shame that long time users such as myself aren't
using the newer AD versions of Eagle.  We're probably missing out on
some new features and such, but we're getting along with the pre-8.0
versions.  My company hasn't had a compelling need for anything more
feature rich that 7.7.  Instead, it's more of a disappointment that AD
is not willing to provide an off-line or perpetual license.

The true shame lies with AD when, despite their promise, they absolutely
refused to accommodate users needing a perpetual license.  I mean, they
weren't even will to enter into one-on-one negotiations.  And /that/ is
to what Jeorn eluded.

Just for completeness, Eagle is not the only AutoDesk product I can't use.

For now, I'll continue using Eagle 7.7.  When I need new features, I'll
look elsewhere... but not to AutoDesk, at least not until they willing
to negotiate in good faith.

Rachel, It is sincerely enjoyable to exchange ideas with you.  I look
forward to the next time we can engage.

Enjoy,
    - Chuck

[rachaelp]

Hi Chuck,

It's great to hear from you and thank you for replying on this.

I wouldn't call it a shame that long time users such as myself aren't using the newer AD versions of Eagle. 

I guess what I should have said was I *personally* find it a shame that the situation has lead to a lot of the long time EAGLE users to not being involved in how EAGLE has progressed, and not being on those forums. I always found your and many others insights invaluable. So it's me personally wishing the situation was different and you guys would be involved in the new EAGLE forums again. I really do understand and respect your position on this but still hope that some day something can be done to improve this situation.

I don't know if you have even looked casually at the more recent changes, but for me the productivity increase over what I can do in 7.7 for the boards I do is massive and at least some of the early accusations levelled at AD that they were just in it to fleece people for the subscription money have been proven false.

AD corporate licensing policies aside, it seems to be a really genuinely enthusiastic bunch of engineers working on bringing new features to EAGLE and it's a shame for them too that no matter how hard they work and how much they add to the product, there are a large portion of the potential user base who are not going to use what they are producing.

Rachel, It is sincerely enjoyable to exchange ideas with you.  I look
forward to the next time we can engage.

Likewise, hopefully our paths will cross again in the not too distant future.

Best Regards,

Rachael

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[Joern Paschedag]

Post by rachaelp
Hi Chuck,
It's great to hear from you and thank you for replying on this.

I wouldn't call it a shame that long time users such as myself aren't using the newer AD versions of Eagle.

I guess what I should have said was I *personally* find it a shame that the situation has lead to a lot of the long time EAGLE users to not being involved in how EAGLE has progressed, and not being on those forums. I always found your and many others insights invaluable. So it's me personally wishing the situation was different and you guys would be involved in the new EAGLE forums again. I really do understand and respect your position on this but still hope that some day something can be done to improve this situation.

Hi Rachael,
I don't feel bothered ;-)

On the other hand I don't consider you as a long time user (around 2016
I guess)?

And I shall not start again a discussion about the old stuff.
But what you don't know is during that time after some long open
discussions some others and I got private offers from AD about licensing.
Imho behind the back of all the other users.
Same thing is AD's "condition of use".
Have you ever read through the whole of it? Especially I "like" position
9 and 11.1.
THAT certainly takes time (that is made so to lull one in, put one asleep)
but I always do read through the whole thing and those conditions are
not acceptable for me.
Imho it shows the character of AD and I don't like it.

Post by rachaelp
I don't know if you have even looked casually at the more recent changes, but for me the productivity increase over what I can do in 7.7 for the boards I do is massive and at least some of the early accusations levelled at AD that they were just in it to fleece people for the subscription money have been proven false.
AD corporate licensing policies aside, it seems to be a really genuinely enthusiastic bunch of engineers working on bringing new features to EAGLE and it's a shame for them too that no matter how hard they work and how much they add to the product, there are a large portion of the potential user base who are not going to use what they are producing.

Well I see that a little different. What I have seen in the the update
list is that most of the new updates are repairs of a few new things.

[rachaelp]

Hi Joern,

Post by Gerald Schwarz
Hi Rachael,
I don't feel bothered
On the other hand I don't consider you as a long time user (around 2016
I guess)?

I've been using EAGLE professionally since early 2015 but on and off for personal projects way before that, but I was only active on the forums from 2015. Prior to using EAGLE for my main work I used Mentor Graphics and Cadence products for many years so I know what higher end tools are like and what the features add to the workflow.

Post by Gerald Schwarz
Same thing is  AD's "condition of use".
Have you ever read through the whole of it? Especially I "like" position
9 and 11.1.

Well I can certainly understand that the wording of these may cause some concern....

Post by Gerald Schwarz
Well I see that a little different. What I have seen in the the update list is that most of the new updates are repairs of a few new things.

Certainly a lot of what is listed in the release notes is related to enhancement/fixes to existing features but having read through it now the release notes aren't always doing a good job of highlighting all the new features properly. There is a lot more than is immediately obvious from a scan through the release notes. Here is a list of the things I can think of:

* Shared Managed Libraries
* Design Manager in Schematic
* Persistent Groups
* Re-Route Command
* New Routing Engine with new Bus Routing and enhanced Diff Pair Routing
* Selection Filter and Object Inspector
* Assign 3D models in Sch/Brd
* Quickroute Fanout
* Preserve Angles Move in Board
* Digital/Mixed Simulation
* Design Manager in Board
* New Bus UI functionality in the schematic
* New CAM Processor
* Analog SPICE Simulation
* Routing enhanced with Object Avoidance, Loop Removal, Push & Shove, Etc
* Live DRC
* Fusion 360 Integration

There's probably a lot more I have forgotten too, not that I expect you care at this point ;)

Best Regards,

Rachael

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[Joern Paschedag]

Post by rachaelp
Hi Joern,

Post by Gerald Schwarz
Hi Rachael,
I don't feel bothered
On the other hand I don't consider you as a long time user (around 2016
I guess)?

I've been using EAGLE professionally since early 2015 but on and off for personal projects way before that, but I was only active on the forums from 2015. Prior to using EAGLE for my main work I used Mentor Graphics and Cadence products for many years so I know what higher end tools are like and what the features add to the workflow.

SNIP

I see ;-)
I started with Orcad...

[Chuck Huber]

Post by Joern Paschedag

Post by rachaelp
Hi Joern,

  Hi Rachael,
I don't feel bothered
On the other hand I don't consider you as a long time user (around 2016
I guess)?

I've been using EAGLE professionally since early 2015 but on and off
for personal projects way before that, but I was only active on the
forums from 2015. Prior to using EAGLE for my main work I used Mentor
Graphics and Cadence products for many years so I know what higher
end tools are like and what the features add to the workflow.

SNIP
I see ;-)
I started with Orcad...

Yeah.. that's pretty close to where I started.

Orcad schematic and Tango PCB in the early-mid 80's.

I'm not entirely sure when I cut over to Eagle.  I do know it was
sometime in version 4.

Enjoy,
    - Chuck

[Joern Paschedag]

Post by Chuck Huber

Post by Joern Paschedag

Post by rachaelp
Hi Joern,

  Hi Rachael,
I don't feel bothered
On the other hand I don't consider you as a long time user (around 2016
I guess)?

I've been using EAGLE professionally since early 2015 but on and off
for personal projects way before that, but I was only active on the
forums from 2015. Prior to using EAGLE for my main work I used Mentor
Graphics and Cadence products for many years so I know what higher
end tools are like and what the features add to the workflow.

SNIP
I see ;-)
I started with Orcad...

Yeah.. that's pretty close to where I started.
Orcad schematic and Tango PCB in the early-mid 80's.
I'm not entirely sure when I cut over to Eagle.  I do know it was
sometime in version 4.
Enjoy,
    - Chuck

I just checked, I started with eagle 2.6, still have the Cadsoft folder ;-)
with 5 1/4" diskettes and no drive for them :-(
The reason was actually that I had to construct plenty devices with
European symbols in orcad.
When eagle came out we had both the US- and EU-Symbols and we even could
convert the orcad files to eagle.
Unfortunately there was no hierarchical design in eagle but was no so
important at that time.

[Gerald Schwarz]

Basically, I think like you. But Autodesk does not care how many cope. That was so every time, with all their products they sell.
"If you like that, or need that - then pay that!"
I recall too what we discussed here.

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[BB-Sphere (Clem)]

why

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[Joern Paschedag]

Post by BB-Sphere (Clem)
why
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Check old stuff when AD took over.