Discussion:
beginner help with eagle
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Chris Harrison
2019-02-24 01:13:20 UTC
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I just started a board using eagle for the first time.
I am stuck, can't delete some vias and two overlapping tracks.
I spent three days reading tutorials and I searched everywhere I cannot find a solution to this problem.
I have uploaded some pictures.
[deleted vias leave pattern cannot delete] [can't delete overlapping tracks]

The areas highlighted are the ones I am concerned with.
Thanks for your help.

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Chris Harrison
2019-02-24 08:44:43 UTC
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thank you for responding.

is there no way to get rid of it? i am finding eagle to have a lot of these bugs or quirks.
I used to use an old version of protel that was just too easy, not at all complicated like eagle.
place a track, type P then T how easy is that?
place a via, type P then V
move a track, M, T
it is very difficult to connect a trace on a very small tqfp device when you can't even use the arrow keys!!

i copied the files from my desktop to my laptop and the errors went away.

trouble is i need to use the desktop because eagle is almost impossible without a real mouse!

any help is greatly appreciated. i am almost going to give up on eagle and try something else.

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Joern Paschedag
2019-02-24 12:54:06 UTC
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Post by Chris Harrison
thank you for responding.
is there no way to get rid of it? i am finding eagle to have a lot of these bugs or quirks.
I used to use an old version of protel that was just too easy, not at all complicated like eagle.
place a track, type P then T how easy is that?
place a via, type P then V
move a track, M, T
it is very difficult to connect a trace on a very small tqfp device when you can't even use the arrow keys!!
i copied the files from my desktop to my laptop and the errors went away.
trouble is i need to use the desktop because eagle is almost impossible without a real mouse!
any help is greatly appreciated. i am almost going to give up on eagle and try something else.
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One cannot compare one program with the other directly.
The errors shown could be from the DRC and would be erased by ERRORS
CLEAR in command line.
Easiest would be if you zip your eagle files and place them here (if
they are not top secret), so eagle users could check them.
BTW it's always good to tell the eagle version.
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
David Murphy
2019-02-24 08:08:56 UTC
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I find that as a general rule showing and hiding layers can help a lot. If you're not sure exactly where an artifact is, sometimes showing all layers held reveal it. If you're struggling to select a via for instance, turn off all layers except vias.

There are definitely some usability quirks in Eagle that can trip you up right at the start when you're trying to get your head round it all.

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Rob Pearce
2019-02-24 14:07:50 UTC
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Post by Chris Harrison
I just started a board using eagle for the first time.
I am stuck, can't delete some vias and two overlapping tracks.
I spent three days reading tutorials and I searched everywhere I cannot find a solution to this problem.
I have uploaded some pictures.
[deleted vias leave pattern cannot delete] [can't delete overlapping tracks]
The areas highlighted are the ones I am concerned with.
Thanks for your help.
Which version of Eagle?

As Joern says, those look like DRC markers but, unless you're on an
older version, removing the cause of the error should clear them. At
least since V9.0 - I can't remember when it changed but V7 needs the
explicit clear command.
Chuck Huber
2019-02-28 21:03:48 UTC
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Good afternoon, Chris,

David, Joern and Rob all provide good suggestion on how to find the
errors.  I know that Joern and Rob have been around Eagle pretty much
since the oceans formed.  Well... maybe not quite//that long.

The command you seek is the "Ripup" command.  When a trace is deleted,
the board editor is trying to delete the entire signal, which can only
be done in the schematic in order to maintain consistency between the
schematic and the board.  By doing a ripup, the board editor will leave
what's called an air wire (usually a thin yellow line), which is an
indicator that routing is incomplete.  The air wire will have the same
end points as the trace that was ripped up.

After several ripups, you may find that the air wire meanders where you
don't want to place a new trace.  The mesh of air wires can be
recalculate with the "Ratsnest" command.  Bear in mind that after a
Ratsnet, the air wires will be generated between an unrouted pad and the
nearest wire endpoint that's on the same net as the pad.  The shortest
distance route may not be the proper or optima path.  A case in point is
when implementing a star ground - where the ground from each subsection
of your circuit are all routed to the same via.

There are icons for each of these commands, the actual image for which
may vary across versions of Eagle.

HTH,
    - Chuck
Post by Chris Harrison
I just started a board using eagle for the first time.
I am stuck, can't delete some vias and two overlapping tracks.
I spent three days reading tutorials and I searched everywhere I cannot find a solution to this problem.
I have uploaded some pictures.
[deleted vias leave pattern cannot delete] [can't delete overlapping tracks]
The areas highlighted are the ones I am concerned with.
Thanks for your help.
--
https://www.element14.com/community/message/272190
Chris Harrison
2019-03-01 12:16:30 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for responding.

For the record I am using v8.2.

I got two more unneeded vias. The only way I got rid of them was to move the files from my desktop to my laptop,
*only then* did the ripup and ratsnest commands work.

[eagle.jpg]
In the situation (above picture), I found a better way to route the track without using two vias.
The only way to get the track routed where I wanted was to move the vias outside of the dimension lines and proceed.
Now I can't delete the vias  (until I move the files over to the laptop as mentioned above).

I am not new to pcb design, just new to eagle. I have tried eagle before (a few years back) and gave up.
I simply don't have two weeks to create a new board. There are many posts on the internet regarding this problem.
I know that the ripup and ratsnest commands are supposed to take care of this but they do not always work.
I don't know how many times I have started my design over just to eliminate these bugs.

There are two problems I see with eagle that will prevent me from using it:

1. You cannot route a trace to a very small TQFP-100 with a mouse. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
You CANNOT move a component, track or whatever a very small distance with the mouse
and I don't drink coffee or consume any caffeine!!
I have always used the arrow keys on the keyboard in the past simply pressing M (for move) and T for track.
It's very easy to move the item this way and extremely precise.

Why can't this simple command be implemented in eagle?
In just simple track routing, the process is extremely difficult.The very end of the track straying to the left or right
kind of like this:
[trace.jpg]
This really slows the very simple process of routing. Using the arrows and the enter key would be
a million times faster and more precise. I do eventually get it right the hard way.

2. The program thinks too much for itself and does not let the user do the thinking.
There should be an override or unlock feature.

In the very old Protel program you can move pins very easily in any component just by unlocking the component.
Sometimes in order to get a thin track between two pins I have had  to change the padstack size on the two pins
where the track runs between. This is perfectly fine, but almost impossible and a great deal of trouble in eagle.

I want to route a trace my way. I do not want the program to decide for me therefore ending up with unnecessary vias.
A few times I have had to manipulate the eagle schematic in a very unusual way just to satisfy the pcb routing.

Sure the program tries to route the track to the closest position, but that position might be on another layer which would require one or more vias.
In trying to keep the costs down and my board as small as possible there is simply not enough clearance for all these extra vias.

I don't want to sound unappreciative for the help you have offered me.
What I look for in any program is a lot less bells and whistles and more easy & basic functions that work well.
Unfortunately I just don't see that in Eagle.

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Joern Paschedag
2019-03-01 14:56:48 UTC
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Post by Chris Harrison
Thank you for responding.
For the record I am using v8.2.
SNIP
Post by Chris Harrison
1. You cannot route a trace to a very small TQFP-100 with a mouse. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!
Sorry, but you talk rubbish. To connect to a TQFP-100 is usual
business. Perhaps you set your grid to a proper value, let's say about
0.25mm you can route those contacts with warp speed.
Post by Chris Harrison
You CANNOT move a component, track or whatever a very small distance with the mouse
and I don't drink coffee or consume any caffeine!!
Same thing...
Post by Chris Harrison
I have always used the arrow keys on the keyboard in the past simply pressing M (for move) and T for track.
It's very easy to move the item this way and extremely precise.
Why can't this simple command be implemented in eagle?
In just simple track routing, the process is extremely difficult.The very end of the track straying to the left or right
Ask AD
Although key use was never possible before.

SNIP
Post by Chris Harrison
In the very old Protel program you can move pins very easily in any component just by unlocking the component.
Well then, use Protel.

It is imho childish to compare programs against each other. Either learn
how to proper use your program or get a different program as easy as that.
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag
14rhb
2019-03-02 08:56:28 UTC
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Post by Chris Harrison
What I look for in any program is a lot less bells and whistles and more easy & basic functions that work well.
Unfortunately I just don't see that in Eagle.
Hi Chris,

Thank you for posting your question as it prompted the community to provide some really detailed and helpful answers, that has actually helped in my understanding of Eagle PCB. I've used the free version of Eagle for many years, limited in board area and layers, but for occasional home use I really cannot fault it....because it is free; I haven't paid anyone anything to use it, Cadsoft and Autocad have done all that work themselves, so I really can live with the occasional glitch or awkward process.

Out of interest do you etch the boards yourself? I'd be most interested to hear how you make them and see some photos of the finished articles.

Rod

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14rhb
2019-03-02 08:57:58 UTC
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Hi Chuck,

That is a great explanation - I've seen that sort of thing, carried on, by luck found a solution and never really understood what was happening....until now. Thank you.

Rod

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BETTY HUNT
2019-03-11 12:48:46 UTC
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Indeed a great information!

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